#42: God? Is That Really You?

#42: “God? Is That Really You?”

Note: The Love Thy Neighborhood podcast is made for the ear, and not the eye. We would encourage you to listen to the audio for the full emotional emphasis of this episode. The following transcription may contain errors. Please refer to the audio before quoting any content from this episode. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Hey guys, it’s Jesse. Hey, real quick before we get today’s episode started – we love doing these podcasts and we love telling stories, but the podcast – it is not the only thing that we do as a ministry. In fact, the one that we invest even more into is our program. It’s a program for young adults ages 18 to 30, and the reason that I’m mentioning that right now is because we have an application deadline coming up on July 12. So if you are a young adult or you know a young adult between the ages of 18 and 30 and you’re trying to figure out – “What do I do with the next year of my life?” – we are the place for you. We would love for you to come and serve with us. We have a ton of different internship tracks, you know, things like book editing and publishing or legal aid, if you’re interested in men’s recovery at a homeless shelter or if you wanna work with urban youth. We have 20 different internship tracks that you can choose from, and we would love to help you have a meaningful, purposeful life where you live in community with other Christians and help people in need with the gospel. So, to apply, head over to lovethyneighborhood.org, and you wanna apply by July 12 because that’s the application deadline. Our term, it starts in September. Again, head over to lovethyneighborhood.org, and we would love to journey with you over the next year as you step into the story that God is writing through you. Okay, onto the episode. 

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JESSE EUBANKS: Hey, Jesse Eubanks. Love Thy Neighborhood podcast. So a little while back I mentioned that we were gonna try some stuff that kind of goes off script from what we normally do, and this is one of those times. Let me give you some context for what I mean. Back in February, I had a meeting with this guy, and that’s pretty standard. My workdays are often full of meetings, but in the middle of this particular meeting, the guy started telling me this story. It was actually a story about hearing the literal voice of God. And it was during the story that I realized, you know, claiming to hear from God – that is a high stake situation. Because it’s possible that you listen and you do the thing that God is telling you to do and it ends up not working, in which case either God got it wrong or you are delusional. Or you could choose not to listen, to chalk up the voice to simply a lack of sleep or an imaginative brain. But what if it turns out that it really was God speaking? And so, for today’s episode, we’re bringing you four different stories from people who found themselves asking the question, “God, is that really you?”

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JESSE EUBANKS: You’re listening to the Love Thy Neighborhood podcast. Today’s episode – God? Is That Really You? Welcome to our corner of the urban universe.

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JESSE EUBANKS: Okay, so I’m here with our producer, Rachel Szabo. 

RACHEL SZABO: Hello. 

JESSE EUBANKS: And our first story is the one that I heard in that meeting that I talked about. And so here is story number one – “Searching for Jim.”

Rob Vischer’s in his late twenties. He’s a tall guy, really tall, with a voice and a laugh that immediately fills the room. And at the time he was living in Michigan, not too far from his parents actually, which meant that he would visit them from time to time, and that’s actually what he had done on this particular fall evening. 

ROB VISCHER: I decided to leave and go home, and I lived about 10 minutes from my parents’ house, uh, in Jackson, Michigan at that time. 

JESSE EUBANKS: They had mostly been talking politics all night. They actually prayed for our country and our leaders right before Rob decided that he should head home. But as he left, something odd happened. 

ROB VISCHER: When I was going out, uh, in my parents’ driveway to the car, I opened the car door and it was almost like a tightness in my chest, or, like, maybe not a tightness, but a heaviness in my chest.

JESSE EUBANKS: That heaviness quickly turned into something Rob had never experienced before. 

ROB VISCHER: It was like this very strong knowing. It’s like a feeling, just this really strong urging. It’s like my whole body became a satellite that knew what was the next right thing to do. That’s all I can describe it as what I felt or what I had a knowing about. I, like, knew these words. I can’t even say heard these words really, but I knew these words – “Go to 7-11. There’s a guy named Jim there.” And I was like, “Wait, what?” 

RACHEL SZABO: Hold on. Okay. What is he talking about? Like his body is like a satellite. I, I don’t know. This sounds like some kind of new age-y weirdness going on.

JESSE EUBANKS: Well, you’re not the only one who found this, you know, a bit strange because Rob was also caught off guard.

ROB VISCHER: And I’m getting into my car and closing the door, and I’m like, “Am I crazy? ‘Go to 7-11. There’s a guy named Jim there’? Uh, this is kinda weird.” So I, I was kind of confused by it, honestly. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. You know, why would he all of a sudden feel the need to go to a convenient store and talk to a stranger? So, at this point, Rob quickly deduces that there are three possible explanations, the first one being that he’s just somehow made all of this up in his head. 

ROB VISCHER: My mind was going a million miles per hour. Like, why am I gonna go to 7-11? I don’t even like 7-11. Honestly, like, I, I don’t go there for anything. So it was just kind of outta character. 

JESSE EUBANKS: The truth is that Rob hadn’t even set foot in a 7-11 since he was a kid. And as far as somebody named Jim, he didn’t know anybody named Jim, except maybe the character on The Office. So the option that he was making this all up, it just didn’t seem to fit. The second option was that maybe this was from a more sinister source.

ROB VISCHER: Another filter was like, “Uh, would the devil tell me to do this?” And even though I wasn’t like in that world at the time, I had grown up as a charismatic. So I was like, you know, there’s all that spiritual warfare stuff. And I’m like, “Is the devil telling me to do this?” And I quickly decided, “No, no, this isn’t the devil.” I mean, maybe if it was like, “Go to 7-11 and rob it.” 

JESSE EUBANKS: Okay, so he decides that that option does not make sense either, which only for him left that third option. And that option was – this must be God. And if that is the case, if God is the one talking, what does this mean? 

RACHEL SZABO: Okay, so he’s in his parents’ driveway, it’s like, you know, eight o’clock at night or something, and now suddenly God is giving him directions? Like, that also doesn’t make any sense. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Well, so Rob decided to test the idea.

ROB VISCHER: And I was like, “Lord, if this is you – I’m really not sure if it is – give me something else. Give me something to tell this guy. I don’t want to just show up and say, ‘Hey, Jim,’ and not have anything to tell him.”

RACHEL SZABO: Okay, so did he get a response? 

ROB VISCHER: I started getting these downloads in my heart. I, I don’t know how else to describe it. Um, the download was, “Give him hope for his finances.” And I was like, “Uh…”

JESSE EUBANKS: So Rob had asked a question, and he got an answer. So he decides, “Okay, let’s do it.” 

ROB VISCHER: I was like, “I could be crazy, but I think I’m gonna roll with this and just see what happens because it’s never happened before. Why not just try it? If, you know, I see Jim, I will give him hope for his finances, whatever that means.” 

JESSE EUBANKS: So here’s the thing – where Rob was, it was rural, a bit isolated. There was only one 7-11 in town, so at least he knew where he was going. So Rob’s in his car, and he just starts driving to 7-11. 

ROB VISCHER: And I created this whole scenario in my mind of, “I’m gonna go in, there’s gonna be a guy named Jim behind the counter, and I’m gonna see his name tag. I’m gonna talk to him and give him hope for his finances and then I’m gonna walk out and it’s all gonna be good.” I get to 7-11, open my car door, and there’s no cars in the parking lot and I’m like, “Ah, Jim, better be in there.” I open the door to 7-11, look at the front counter where, you know, all the lottery tickets are and the snack food, and it’s a girl. There’s nobody else in 7-11 and, you know, I’m, I wouldn’t consider myself the smartest guy in the world, but I deduced pretty quickly that her name wasn’t Jim.

RACHEL SZABO: Wait, so he was wrong. Like, so it, it wasn’t God speaking to him because like there’s not a Jim at 7-11. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Well, Rob wasn’t quite ready to conclude that, and he wasn’t ready to give up so easily. 

ROB VISCHER: So I went over to make sure that Jim wasn’t, like, hiding in a snack aisle somewhere. I went over to the hostess section, you know, where they have the Little Debbies, the Ho-Hos, the Ding-Dongs, the Twinkies. I just go up there, start grabbing snacks and looking at the nutrition. 

JESSE EUBANKS: So, I don’t know if you feel like this, but, like, when I’m in a gas station or a convenience store, I feel like there’s, like, a time limit to how much browsing you’re allowed to do, and, like, if you take too long, then it starts to look like you’re up to something shady. 

RACHEL SZABO: Oh yeah, definitely. Like, there’s a corner store near my house and sometimes I’ll like go up and down the aisles multiple times looking for something and I totally feel like everyone’s watching me. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. You know, so Rob’s standing there, he’s browsing the snacks, and one minute turns into two, then five, then 10. Like, he knows the girl at the counter is watching him because he’s the only person in the store, and he just starts feeling understandably really self-conscious. 

ROB VISCHER: I’m like, “Lord, I think I’ve missed it.” 

JESSE EUBANKS: Either he misheard the instructions or he took too long to get there or it really wasn’t God after all.

RACHEL SZABO: Man. I don’t know why, but, like, that’s so disheartening. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. You know, so Rob decides to stop creeping out the girl at the counter and just go home. 

ROB VISCHER: Right as I decide that, I turn around – my back is to the door – and I turn around, and in walks this guy. 

JESSE EUBANKS: He’s an average middle-aged white guy. He’s probably late thirties to mid forties, just a very normal looking guy. He had on a mechanic shirt and a baseball hat, and so naturally Rob is looking at this mechanic shirt – and what is often on a mechanic shirt? 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, the name embroidered on it.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. And so Rob starts looking for a name.

ROB VISCHER: But the interesting thing about it was his name wasn’t on it. And that same knowing, that same feeling – I don’t, I don’t even still know how to describe it, but I knew that that was Jim. 

RACHEL SZABO: Stop. What? 

ROB VISCHER: I saw the words slash heard the words, “That’s Jim. Go up to him boldly and say, ‘Hey, your name’s Jim, isn’t it?'” So I’m like, “Oh my gosh.”

RACHEL SZABO: Like, literally he was about to leave. 

JESSE EUBANKS: I know, but if this is Jim, Rob feels like, “Okay, well I gotta go talk to him.”

ROB VISCHER: He grabs something really quick, like he’s, you know, he’s on a mission. I could tell because he grabs something really quick, goes to the register – it’s like a candy bar or something. So I go up to him, tap him on the shoulder, and say, “Hey, uh, your name’s Jim isn’t it?” He turns around, and he goes, “Yeah, how’d you know?”

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. Like, how is Rob supposed to answer that question? “Well, you see, I know because I became a satellite and God spoke to me.” 

JESSE EUBANKS: Well, that’s actually a version of exactly what he ends up saying. 

ROB VISCHER: Then I go, “Well, God sent me here to give you hope for your finances.” And he looked at me kinda weird, and he goes, “Well, that’s really strange, man. Right now I’m going through a personal bankruptcy.” And I’m like, “Oh my gosh, what the heck?”

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, like what are the odds, right? You know, there’s no way, like, if you went to a random gas station and went up to somebody – how likely is it that you would number one, guess their name correctly, and number two, know something about their personal life?

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. And number three, be in the store at the same time the person is in the store.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. But Rob realizes, like, that this is where the instructions stopped, like those were all the instructions he had gotten – “Go to 7-11, talk to Jim about his finances.” So now Rob’s like, “Well, what should I do?” You know, it didn’t seem right to just be like, “Well, I guess that was it. I’ll see you later.”

ROB VISCHER: So I just kind of started talking to him about how much the Lord loves him and how much the Lord wants to give him wisdom in all things, including his finances. And I didn’t know what else to do, so there was an ATM there and I was like, “Hey man, um, I can go to the ATM right now and give you some money, you know, to help you out with your bankruptcy.” And he goes, “No, don’t worry about it, man. Don’t worry about it. I’m a believer. I love Jesus.” And he goes, “But I’ve never had anything like this happen.” I pray with him, just ask the Lord for wisdom for his finances and that he would be taken care of, and he goes, “Well, thanks, thanks, man.” He goes, “Now I know the miracles really do happen.” And he opened the door and left.

RACHEL SZABO: So, like, do we know, like, what happened to Jim? Did he, like, get out of bankruptcy? 

JESSE EUBANKS: No, we actually have no idea how that experience shaped Jim. We do know that it shaped Rob a lot. 

ROB VISCHER: I never saw Jim again, and I definitely never went into 7-11 again. I wasn’t looking for signs after that like, “Hey, Lord, uh, who do you want me to talk to in 7-11 next week?” I don’t necessarily think even that experience was just for Jim. I think me being able to engage in that was a gift. And if somebody says, “Hey, Rob, God isn’t real,” well, I would have to absolutely deny that experience, like, “Oh, well, my human connection just knew, or the cosmos just knew.” I mean, I would have to make a God out of something else to explain it away. 

JESSE EUBANKS: I think the truth is that Rob realizes that this is a mystical experience, like facts and figures and pure science, the tangible world, cannot explain what is happening. And so Rob knows like, “I will have to attribute this to something that is beyond the world around me.” You know, I think he just, he’s looking up at the stars and going, like, “someone out there is causing all of this to happen.” And, like, Rob’s not going throughout his whole life thinking that every single moment, you know, he’s gonna get these sort of mystical experiences. He knows that these kinds of moments – they aren’t the norm. 

ROB VISCHER: Looking back on that, as I’ve had more times of prayer, that’s kind of what it’s been like. It hasn’t been like, “Hey Rob, go out and do something to change the world.” It’s been like, “Yeah, go take cookies to your neighbors.” It hasn’t been like this Red Sea moment or, like, “let my people go” or anything like that. It’s just kind of been like, “do this act of really small compassion that nobody’s gonna notice.” I think that in hearing God speak, I don’t think it makes me mature. It just means that God was willing to use me.

RACHEL SZABO: Man, what a crazy story. Like, it’s incredible to me the way that God can sometimes speak through men and women. Also, another thing that I find fascinating is when God chooses to speak through children, and I actually have a story about that. A while back, we had put out a call to our listeners to share with us their own stories of a time when they believe God spoke to them, and so this is a story from Kate Zimmerman. This is story number two – “Out of the Mouth of Babes.”

KATE ZIMMERMAN: We are the parents of three young kids. Last summer, we had a bunch of peonies growing in our front yard, so we decided to cut them and put them in some vases, and then we took our three kids out for a drive. Um, we asked our six-year-old son Jesse to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us to where we should go with those peonies, um, not really knowing what would happen or where we would end up, but we asked the Holy Spirit to guide us and then we kind of let our six-year-old guide us around our small town thinking of people along the way, seeing people’s homes that we knew along the way, and stopping and dropping off peonies on people’s front porches. We had one bouquet left at the end of our night and we asked him where we should go and we started just driving around, turning whenever he told us to turn. Um, and we ended up down a dead-end side street where our babysitters lived, um, two sisters, and Jesse said, “Let’s drop ’em off to Anna and Ella.” So we did. Um, and we dropped ’em off on their porch, got home, and about an hour later I checked Facebook and saw that their dad had been brought into the hospital earlier that day for a medical emergency. Um, and it felt very much like that bouquet of flowers was meant for that family exactly, and we still talk about it, um, as a time that we really, clearly felt God speaking to us and leading our turns as we drove around our small town.

RACHEL SZABO: Thanks, Kate, for sharing your story with us. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Okay, so we have two more stories to share with you, including a professor who wrote a book with words that were literally from heaven. So stick around, and we’ll be right back.

COMMERCIAL

JESSE EUBANKS: Jesse.

RACHEL SZABO: Rachel.

JESSE EUBANKS: Love Thy Neighborhood podcast. Today we’re hearing stories from people claiming to have heard the voice of God, and this next story is an excerpt from Christianity Today. It’s an article published in their March 2007 issue. The author of the article actually wanted to remain anonymous. So reading this story for you is our friend Chad Lewis. Here’s story number three – “The Book That Came From Heaven.” 

CHAD LEWIS (VOICEOVER): I’m a middle aged professor of theology at a well-known Christian university. I’ve written award-winning books. For years, I’ve taught that God still speaks, but I couldn’t testify to it personally. I’m a skeptic about things supernatural, not that I don’t believe they can happen. I just doubt most miracle stories, except the ones in the Bible. I’ve even been known to criticize publicly what I consider to be overly experiential forms of Christianity. I suppose that makes this story especially ironic. About five years ago, my wife and I visited an elderly and very sick man who had once been our pastor. During one of our first visits, the man’s grandsons, 14-year-old twins, came for a visit. The moment I met them, an inner voice told me that someday I would play a role in one of their lives. I brushed it off as a brain hiccup and thought little more of it. During the next five years, we drew closer to that family and got to know the twins well. Gradually, one of them shared with us his call to the Ministry of Music. When the twins were 17, they and their parents visited us and toured the campus where I teach. The one called to music ministry was immediately struck with the impression that he was to attend this particular university and none other. Over the next year, it became clear to us that he was very serious, but my university is expensive and his family is of modest means. During his senior year of high school, he applied for scholarships, but the results were not encouraging. Still, his enthusiasm for studying for ministry at this university didn’t flag. I felt a strong burden to help him, but contrary to popular perception, Christian university professors are not prosperous, and my book royalties had never added up to any large amounts. One bright and beautiful morning, I went out alone walking and praying. I began to cry out to God for my young friend – “Oh God, please use me to make it possible for him to go to this university.” I don’t know what I expected to happen, but I committed to letting God use me however he wanted to on this young man’s behalf. The next week, I was at the same spot in my morning exercise when something amazing happened. Out of the blue, a book title came to me. It was so clever I knew two things instantly. It wasn’t mine, and it would sell. Then, in almost the same instant, the entire outline of the book was there in my mind. Every chapter and its title, no discursive thought preceded it. I immediately went home and began writing. As I wrote, I had the distinct feeling that this was not me. I had never written like this before. The words poured out. Two weeks later, a 200-page manuscript sat on my desk. I knew it was good. But what to do with it? I had never before written a book without a contract. As I sat and looked at the printed pages, the name of a well-known Christian book publisher suddenly came to mind. I had never dealt with this company before, but I had met the chief editor at professional society meetings. I felt directed to contact him, even though I knew the publisher’s procedure for considering book proposals and manuscripts was quite different and more complicated. I sent my acquaintance an email containing the title and the outline. A day later, I received an encouraging response. He wanted to read the manuscript, so I sent it to him. Within weeks, I had a contract. It required only a little tweaking of two or three brief portions of the manuscript. While talking to the editor assigned to this project, I discovered something astonishing. The publisher wanted to pay me a handsome royalty in advance for the book. It was approximately 10 times anything I had ever received upfront before. I felt like I’d won the lottery. Later, I took another brisk walk through my neighborhood. My mind was concentrating on the financial windfall and how to use it. Coincidentally, the estimated cost of my house’s much-needed roof replacement was the same as the royalty advance paid by my new publisher. The answer seemed clear – a new roof. Then God spoke – “It’s not your money.” Knowing instantly it wasn’t a brain hiccup but something more real and serious, I asked, “What do you mean it’s not my money?” My tone was resentful and offensive. “It’s not your money, it’s his.” The voice inside my head was real, as if it were audible. I knew with terrifying certainty it wasn’t my imagination because I didn’t want to hear it. “Whose?” I asked. The voice named the young man for whom I’d been praying only a few weeks earlier. “It’s for him to go to the university and study for the ministry.” “All of it?” “That and the rest.” I knew the rest meant any further royalties the book might earn after it was published. Absolutely flabbergasted, I raised my fist in the air and asked aloud, “What about my roof?” The voice said, “I’ll take care of your roof if you’ll be obedient.” Then I said, “If you want to use me to help him go to the university, why not give me everything it will cost? Why this amount that will make a difference but not pay his whole way?” “Others have to be obedient too,” I heard him reply. When I arrived home, I shared the conversation with my wife who had been looking forward to a roof that wouldn’t leak. I couldn’t talk about it without sobbing almost uncontrollably. I was shaking with emotion. Nothing like this had ever happened to me before. My wife is more spiritual than I am. She immediately agreed. We would wait for a new roof. Over the next few months, I sent letters and emails and made phone calls about my young friend and his financial needs. I felt driven and couldn’t stop talking about him. A couple weeks later, I received an email back from the dean saying the university was awarding him a very large scholarship that would more than cover his room and board. Soon, a foundation kicked in $2,000. Then two more scholarships came. It became apparent that God was working miracles through several people. During this time, I wondered whether I should tell my young friend anything. Something inside urged me to. One early afternoon in April, I drove to his house and took him out for dinner. We talked about the call to ministry and the commitment it requires, so I shared with him my conversation with God and told him the source of the funds that would make it possible for him to attend my university. I explained the origin of the book and the role it would play in his education. He became choked up as he shared with me his own struggles and doubts. Others in his church youth group had received prophetic messages about their future ministries, but he had not. My story confirmed his call. Today my young friend is living in a residence hall and taking courses, including courses in preparation for music ministry. So what does all this mean? I’m a theologian and I should know, but I can’t spin out a fancy theological formula for God’s guidance and provision. What I know is that God spoke to me and used a gift he had already given me to provide for a young man being called into his service. I wonder how many times I passed up an opportunity to be used in such a way. I’m reminded of an old camp chorus from the 1960s – “To be used of God, to speak, to sing, to pray. To be used of God, to show someone the way. I want so much to feel the touch of his consuming fire. To be used of God is my desire.” Now I know more than intellectually that God still speaks.

RACHEL SZABO: Okay, so let me ask you – what would your response be if someone said to you, “Hey, God spoke to me?” 

JESSE EUBANKS: Uh, skepticism. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, I think mine would be similar. And really as I was thinking about, like, “What would my answer be?” I thought about like, man, I have been around a lot of, like, mental illness with working in like –

JESSE EUBANKS: Right.

RACHEL SZABO: Homeless shelter. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yep. 

RACHEL SZABO: And, you know, a lot of the times that can take on a spiritual tone. So I think my first response would be like, “Oh, do you have something mentally wrong?”

JESSE EUBANKS: Right.

RACHEL SZABO: Because you’re saying you heard God.

JESSE EUBANKS: Totally. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah.

JESSE EUBANKS: We now live in an age where the assumption is we assume the natural world and we resist the supernatural.

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: You know, like, people used to see everything as supernatural, and we now in our modern age look at that and go like, “How silly of you.”

RACHEL SZABO: Like, we’re too modern for that.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Like to the point that we, we can’t comprehend the notion that God still does things supernaturally that break our ideas of reality and normalcy.

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: Okay, wait, so you said that you have one more story for us?

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, so this is another listener story. So this is story number four – “The Not So Empty Chapel” – and this comes to us from a listener named Mattress.

MATTRESS: My name is Mattress, and that is a story for another time about how I got that name. But my story about how God spoke to me began back in 2003 when I was a junior in high school and I felt like God was pressing upon my heart to go and minister to those in North Korea. I, myself, am a Korean adoptee, and I felt like God – that was the direction God was leading me in. So for five years I prayed and I searched for organizations that would go into North Korea, but to no avail. Fast forward to 2008 and I was at a Bible college somewhere in the United States and they were having a missions conference related to the persecuted church. Midway during the week, I went to the small prayer chapel and got down on my knees and was going to pray, and I heard a voice, not audible, but loud and clear enough that I remember clearly looking over my shoulder to see if there was someone behind me and there wasn’t. But the voice told me to get up and go to this certain building in my college and talk to the man about the North Korea trip. My immediate thought was, “No, that’s crazy. You’ve been searching for a long time. There’s no way that could happen.” But then I thought, “That was very specific,” so I packed up my stuff and got up and went to that room. When I walked into the room, I saw a man talking on his cell phone, and I thought in my head, “That’s the person I need to talk to.” But I just waited around until he was done talking on the phone, and as he was talking on the phone, I went around and visited the different booths of different organizations and related to missions, but I didn’t see anything about North Korea. But as soon as he got off the phone, he walks straight up to me, and he says, “Hey, so would you like to go on a trip to North Korea with us?” And after my jaw dropped on the floor, I said yes, and he showed me at a table that I had been to and been staring at for a couple minutes a sign-up page to go to North Korea. So I signed up, and then sometime later in the year I was able to go to North Korea.

JESSE EUBANKS: I’d like to leave us with some final words, and that’s that the goal is not always to be expecting to hear from God in an audible way and that if you aren’t hearing from God in this way that your faith must not be strong or that something’s wrong with you. You know, we see God work more often through natural order and through simplicity than through these unusual miracles. And of course, today, we have the privilege of hearing from God through his Word, but the Christian faith also contains a level of mystery and the supernatural, and I think that that’s one of the reasons that Jesus tells us that we have to have faith like a child. It actually reminds me of the words of my friend Mike Cosper and his book, Recapturing The Wonder. When we’re young, it’s easy to believe in the supernatural, the mysterious, the enchanted. But as we grow older, we learn to be more rational and more confident that reality is merely what we can see. Even as Christians who believe in the resurrection, we live as if miracles and magic have been drained from the world. But I think that the truth is that when we come to God, he wants us to come with our imaginations, believing that there’s still so much out there that he’s doing that we can’t quite yet see. But every now and then, God pulls back the curtain and he shows us that he’s still doing things that defy all of our logic and our reasoning and it reminds me of the words of C.S. Lewis, who wrote, “One day you’ll be old enough to believe in fairy tales again.”

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JESSE EUBANKS: Special thanks to our interviewees for this episode – Rob Vischer, Kate Zimmerman, and Mattress. Also, special thanks to Chad Lewis. 

RACHEL SZABO: Our senior producer and host is Jesse Eubanks. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Our co-host today is Rachel Szabo, who’s also our media director and producer and who sometimes likes to tell us all of the bands that she used to belong to.

ROB VISCHER: The Little Debbies, Ho-Hos, the Twinkies. 

RACHEL SZABO: Our media assistant and engineer is Anna Tran. 

JESSE EUBANKS: This episode was edited by the following Love Thy Neighborhood staff and interns – Kiana Brown, Rachel Hamm, Brent Walker, Abby Shaffer, and Silas McCord. Music for today’s episode comes from Lee Rosevere, Poddington Bear, and Blue Dot Sessions. Theme music and commercial music by Murphy DX. 

RACHEL SZABO: Apply for your social justice internship supported by Christian community by visiting lovethyneighborhood.org. Serve for a summer or for a year. Grow in your faith and life skills. Learn more at lovetheneighborhood.org. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Which of these was a neighbor to the man in need? The one who showed mercy. Jesus tells us, “Go, and do likewise.”