#48: The LTN Hotline

#48: The LTN Hotline

Note: The Love Thy Neighborhood podcast is made for the ear, and not the eye. We would encourage you to listen to the audio for the full emotional emphasis of this episode. The following transcription may contain errors. Please refer to the audio before quoting any content from this episode. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Hey guys, real quick before we get today’s episode started – we partner with a lot of non-profits around our city, a lot of ministries, and those ministries depend on young adults coming to serve through Love Thy Neighborhood. We actually have a variety of ministries that have no one serving, and we really need to fix this problem. So if you’re a young adult between the ages of 18 and 30 and you are willing to come and serve for a year to help these ministries in need, you can head over to lovethyneighborhood.org and apply. Especially we need folks for our January 2022 term. The deadline to apply for that term is November 15th. So again, in order to help all of these ministries that need folks just like you, please head over to lovethyneighborhood.org and apply today. 

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JESSE EUBANKS: You’re listening to the Love Thy Neighborhood podcast. This type of storytelling and journalism is made possible by people just like you. So to keep this content coming to your podcast feed, head over to lovethyneighborhood.org/podcast and donate today. Again, to support our work, head over to lovethyneighborhood.org/podcast and donate now.

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JESSE EUBANKS: You’re listening to the Love Thy Neighborhood podcast. Today’s episode – “The LTN Hotline.” Welcome to our corner of the urban universe.

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JESSE EUBANKS: Hey, it’s Jesse. I’m here in the studio with podcast producer Rachel Szabo. 

RACHEL SZABO: Hello.

JESSE EUBANKS: About a week ago, we put out word that we were going to be taking your calls. We wanted to hear your questions, questions about struggles you’re having with your faith or with things going on in the culture or issues of social action. So today we’re gonna respond to your phone calls, your voicemails, your emails, and we’re gonna spend some time taking your calls. 

RACHEL SZABO: Let’s do it.

JESSE EUBANKS: Check, check, check, check, check, check. Okay. 

RACHEL SZABO: Caller!

JESSE EUBANKS: Are we hooked in? All right, great. Okay. 

RACHEL SZABO: Ready, yeah.

JESSE EUBANKS: Hey, this is, uh, this is Jesse. 

BENJAMIN: Hey, my name is Benjamin. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Hey Benjamin. 

BENJAMIN: Uh, would it be okay for me just to shoot off the, the question? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, that’d be great. That’d be great. Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Where is he calling from? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Oh, yeah. Where are you calling from? 

BENJAMIN: Uh, Louisville, Kentucky. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Oh, yeah.

RACHEL SZABO: That’s great. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, We are too. (laughter) Well, uh, yeah. What’s, what’s your question? 

BENJAMIN: So I have a question about, um, how do we as Christian engage our non-Christian friends on the topic of gender fluidity and, like, their preferred pronouns? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Mmm. Yeah, good question. Yeah. Yeah. We, um, we talked a little bit about that, uh, few episodes back. We did an episode on gender dysphoria. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: I remember in that episode I talked about it, and I still feel similar. Like, I still feel the tension of like, um, how healthy is it that we’ve normalized non-gender terms for people like, or –

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah.

JESSE EUBANKS: You know, I, I’m not sure. I, I’ve, I’ve got a lot of conflict over it, but I also, I will concede and when I’m speaking to somebody I will use their preferred pronouns because the relationship would absolutely disappear if I didn’t and the relationship to me is more important than the specific issue. 

RACHEL SZABO: And I think too, uh, if you’re speaking to a non-Christian, um, I, I think that changes it a little bit too because you can’t expect people who do not believe, um, in Jesus, do not have Christian faith – you can’t require them to hold to a standard that you have. And so I don’t know that you could require them to, like, ‘Well, the, the Bible says this and this, therefore I expect you to live that way.’ Well, they don’t care because they, they don’t believe that, you know. And so if it’s a non-Christian, yeah, I, I agree similar to Jesse in that there’s the tension of, like, ‘Well, if I, if I don’t use this, this pronoun, you know, what’s the cost to the relationship?’ But in particular with a non-Christian, I feel like that tension lessens because they’re not gonna hold to my standard of truth anyway. And so in order to maintain the relationship, I would be more open, I think, to using their preferred pronoun if they’re a non-believer.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Just because I’m, I’m not gonna expect them to adhere to biblical standards of gender, you know? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, yeah. They’re growing up in a culture that doesn’t hold to that. Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Benjamin, can I ask this question? Like, is there, um, is there a scenario that’s happened in your life recently that has brought this question to mind?

BENJAMIN: Yeah. I have a cousin of mine who, um, is in, uh, university, and she just had a lot of question and just began to deconstruct on her faith because of seeing her friends that are transgender and lack of ability to address that, uh, intellectually and biblically. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm.

BENJAMIN: So just wonder how do I kind of talk to her, engage her on, like, transgender and, you know, things like that.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: There’s, there’s probably a lot of bad Christian resources out there. That’s probably not too hard to find. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Uh, but there are some really good resources out there. Um, like Preston Sprinkle is doing really good work around this topic. Um, and I would, uh, I would definitely encourage, like, looking into, uh, into some of his, his work.

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, the other thing too is, like – you know, and this gets hard – but – I say this a lot – like, sexuality and I would say, you know, ’cause we’re not talking specifically sexuality, we’re talking gender, like – 

RACHEL SZABO: Right. 

JESSE EUBANKS: But I think both those things are, are downstream from some other issues that are going on in our life, and, and in terms of, you know, to use this word – like worldview interpretation – 

BENJAMIN: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: I think really what we’re talking about is the nature of – is Jesus who he says he is? Do I believe that he’s who he says he is? If I believe he’s who he says he is, then how do I understand the scriptures? If I understand the scriptures to be a particular way, well then what is the implications of that worldview for my gender or my sexuality? So a lot of times, you know, we wanna take the topic sort of head-on – and I’m not saying we can’t if that comes up naturally – but the, the reality is we’re really talking about the nature of Jesus himself and the nature of Jesus himself being determined by the nature of scripture. And so our understanding of gender and sexuality is sort of downstream from our understanding of who Jesus is and, and, uh, what the Bible is. 

BENJAMIN: Mm-hmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: What do you think? What are your thoughts about all that? 

BENJAMIN: Yeah, I, it’s gonna be one of the things I’m gonna try to do more research on, but yeah, thank you for your response.

JESSE EUBANKS: Thank you. Yeah, it’s good talking with you. 

RACHEL SZABO: It’s a very good question. Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Great. Yeah, have a good day. 

BENJAMIN: You too. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. Thanks Benjamin. 

BENJAMIN: Bye.

RACHEL SZABO: Okay, Jesse, I’ve got a voice message here from a listener. Uh, let me play that and see what they say. 

JORDY: Hi Jesse and others. My name is Jordy. I’m calling from Alberta, Canada. Just wanna let you know – a friend recommended your episode on mental health and I just loved it and I’ve listened to every episode of your podcast since. So my question for you is about the spiritual realm and spiritual warfare, especially in light of your latest episode on geek culture, which I found very interesting. So I am sensitive to the spiritual realm, and I find when I try to get closer my walk with God, such as having a period of a good devotion, I often find myself being challenged in the spiritual realm and experiencing darkness or the absence of God as opposed to experiencing God’s presence. Recently, I’ve had to throw out a lot of fantasy-related books and DVDs, yet I found it very confusing, didn’t find myself closer to God, and just felt discouraged. So I just wanted to know if you could help me understand what it is God is trying to tell me. Thanks. 

JESSE EUBANKS: So a couple thoughts come to mind. One of them is I, I would just have a lot more questions. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, I think I would want to, to know some more –

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: About the specific situation and what’s going on. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. I fully firm the existence and the reality of, of the spiritual realm, of spiritual warfare, of the reality that angels are at work around us, demons are at work around us. The number one question I would have, Jordy, would just be – what is the role of community in your life, and what is your relationship to that community? To what extent have you found yourself able to really bond with other people? Sometimes, you know, we enjoy fantasy because it’s awesome and God gave us an imagination and it’s something to be enjoyed. There are also times where we enjoy fantasy because we find real relationships so difficult. We find ourselves overwhelmed with social anxiety, overwhelmed with – you know, we don’t know how to, how to do them. We, we just get lost in the relationships. And so I would just have questions just around that. To what extent do you personally feel that you have good, vibrant community around you that you are proactively pursuing and that are reciprocal? Yeah. So that, that would be kind of my first thought that comes to mind. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, I think in regards to, you know, the, the spiritual realm – um, Jordy, you mentioned that you’ve listened to our episode on mental illness and I don’t know if that is something that is a struggle for you, um, but it is for me and I talk about that, you know, in that episode. And because of the struggles that I have with mental health, like there are times when, if I’m not in a healthy place mentally, emotionally – that, yeah, I’m totally like, ‘everything is about the spiritual and everything is about, like, I’m envisioning demons and it’s like they’re oppressing me, they’re laughing at me, and it’s like this whole other, like, picture in my mind.’ And it – is that real? I – maybe, but also, like, I think there is a correlation with, you know, struggling with mental health and kind of a hyper-sensitivity to kind of spiritual realms, spiritual warfare. But I think I just say that to say, you know, that’s a factor in this – is kind of where, where are you at mentally, emotionally, what’s your health? And for me, you know, if I find myself kind of in that, in a really, really dark place, like that’s not really a time for me to kind of sit and think about the, the spiritual realm, like that’s a time for me to get out of my room and go find other people and, and be around something tangibly real. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: You know, because I’m, I’m not well in that moment, you know, and I’m not saying, you know, anyone who has a sensitivity to spirits is mentally unwell. But I’m saying there, there’s a correlation there that we see often. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, and, and we hold all things in balance, right? 

RACHEL SZABO: Right.

JESSE EUBANKS: Like, ’cause I think the mistake on the other side is to say nothing is spiritual, there is no spiritual realm. And that’s equally a horrible place to be because I think it denies reality. Reality is that there’s a physical and there’s a spiritual and that we live in the mix of those two things.

RACHEL SZABO: As far as, like, what is God trying to tell you? The answer is I don’t know. You know, I, I don’t know what God is trying to tell you through all of that. I think that’s something that you, you just need to continue to, to wrestle with God through spend time with him. Again, be in community. God speaks often through other people, um, and not just, you know, when we’re in our prayer closet.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, and I would propose two things even on trying – you know, when we think about trying to hear the voice of God, I think a lot of times we – we do, I do – I really want God to say a specific message to me that is, you know, audible would be nice, you know, but I would love to hear something that is, like, ‘God is telling me a direct message.’ But what I find more often is God has already spoken and he’s spoken through the scriptures and the more that I sit in the scriptures, internalize the scriptures, and the more that I live them out – so not just trying to sort of hear this extra message from God, but going, ‘Lord, you’ve already spoken. It’s in your scriptures. And then how do I live that out faithfully?’ – oftentimes what I find is that it actually becomes easier to hear the voice of God then, rather than ‘I’m gonna go, I’m gonna pray, and I’m gonna wait for a special, particular message.’ 

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: Um, instead, you cling to God’s people, you cling to God’s Word, and then you move in the direction of proactive discipleship. So living it out. And I find that doing those things – that is hearing the voice of God. Yeah, so that’d be my encouragement is move towards God’s people, move towards God’s Word, and do what you can to, to walk in the lifestyle of Jesus. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. So I don’t know if that’s helpful, Jordy. 

JESSE EUBANKS: But we hope, we hope so.

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. Good question. Thanks for calling. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah.

RACHEL SZABO: Uh, okay. We got a question, uh, via email. This is from, uh, Renee. The title of the email is, “How to Love LGBT Daughter With Grace and Truth.” So Renee says, “I’m asking how to love my LGBT daughter with grace and truth. She was raised in church to love Jesus. We loved her dearly and did our best to show her Jesus in our own lives. She went to church camp and accepted Jesus at summer camp. Now she has come out and is in a relationship with a girl. How do I show truth in love? I really want her to be in heaven one day. Our hearts are broken. We pray and trust a good God, but we would love your help and support.” 

JESSE EUBANKS: Um, yeah, Renee, like as a dad myself, I, I really sympathize with, uh, everything that you’ve just shared and just the, the pain of what we hope for our kids and then the reality of the way that it sometimes plays out and the tension that can exist between, uh, what we hope for their life and the fact that they’re their own person that’s gonna make their own choices, and that gap can be really excruciating at times. Um, and I, I don’t think that we’re the people to give all the answers on, on this one, except to say this – I think there’s a couple thoughts that come to mind. The first one is that I wanna remind you that, as much as you love your daughter, God loves her more.

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: That before she’s a sinner, she is loved. Like that is the truest and deepest thing about her and about who she is, and I just encourage you as a mom to figure out a way to really just celebrate and love your daughter and just to, to, to meet her where she is. Now that doesn’t necessarily make, um, some of those dynamics easier. In fact, in a lot of ways it makes it harder because you’re gonna absorb a lot of that pain, but I just encourage you just to, to really do what you can to, to love her in the way that, that God does and remember that, as much as you love her, God loves her more. Um, the second thing I would say is that it’s a really hard time right now because, um, culturally we’ve made sexuality this primary identity-defining thing.

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: Like who I am sexually attracted to and the way that my sexuality is wired, that, that literally is me. And I think that just as much as non-Christians can believe that, there’s a temptation for Christians to believe that as well, that our sexual activity defines who we are. And again, I’m just gonna come back to, uh, the gospel says that that’s not true, and the good news is that God loves us, um, regardless of our sexuality. And part of the reason that I wanna encourage you to love her well is this – is that, you know, whether it’s sexuality issues or other bigger lifestyle issues, you know, in terms of her relationship to Jesus, ’cause sexuality’s downstream. It’s not primary. Sexuality is downstream from other things in our life, other things that, that we prioritize, other ways that we approach relationships. And the only way that she’s ever gonna give you an audience and the only way she’s gonna listen to you is if she truly actually believes that you really love her. And so, if you want to be able to speak into hard issues in her life that you’re concerned about, issues that you’re concerned that are gonna hurt her, that are sin, then I encourage you – love her very, very well because showing that grace, uh, gives you an opportunity to also then, uh, bring truth. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm. Like lead with the grace. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yes. 

RACHEL SZABO: And, and then bring the truth. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yes. 

RACHEL SZABO: Not the other way around. 

JESSE EUBANKS: That’s right. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: That’s right. And that’s a really hard thing to do as parents, especially when we see, like, ‘Oh my gosh, my child is actively living, doing, saying things that are bringing harm to their life.’ You know, there’s a real temptation as a parent, like, we wanna fix that. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Um, but, uh, but man, they’re, they’re their own person, and so we have to, we have to respect that. And so we wanna lead with love, and loving them well then gives us the opportunity to also speak truth.

RACHEL SZABO: Speak the truth. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. The other thing I would recommend is a couple of books by Christopher Yuan. That’s y-u-a-n. The first one is his book Out of a Far Country. The subtitle is A Gay Son’s Journey to God, A Broken Mother’s Search for Hope. I think that that might be a book that, uh, that might resonate with you. And then the other one is his newer book, which is called Holy Sexuality and the Gospel: Sex, Desire, and Relationship Shaped by God’s Grand Story. Hopefully some of those resources might just be an encouragement for you and give you just some sense of next steps, uh, that you could take in your relationship with your daughter.

RACHEL SZABO: Another resource, Renee, would be actually our episode on gender dysphonia. Um, and it’s not gonna be, you know, exactly the, the situation that you’re in, but they, we have a story in that episode – um, we hear from a parent who had a child who, you know, was struggling with their, their sexual identity and they actually ended up, you know, deciding to transition to the opposite gender, but that parent in that episode is very raw and very real in talking about the struggle in that and talking through, you know, how they’ve had to learn to love their child through all that. And so that, that might also be a helpful resource for you to go and listen to that episode on gender dysphoria. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, thanks Renee for, uh, for asking this question, and, yeah, we hope it was helpful. Alright, when we come back, we will continue to answer your questions, so stay with us.

COMMERCIAL

JESSE EUBANKS: Jesse.

RACHEL SZABO: Rachel.

JESSE EUBANKS: Love Thy Neighborhood podcast, and we are continuing to answer your questions. 

RACHEL SZABO: Okay, I’ve got another question here. This is a voice message from another listener. Let’s take a listen. 

ANDY: Hey, LTN. This is Andy from Prince George, British Columbia. So my struggle right now is around the topic of the expressions of joy or soul or spirit within a Christian life. Most of my adult life I have been a truth-seeker. However, I have noticed a lack of zest for life in my life and in the church in general. Why am I jealous of Christians who lived a wayward life before coming to faith? Why is it that as Christians we either are charismatic or reverent toward God, but not both? One adjacent area of my life that may reflect these topics is dance. I learned to ballroom, swing, and Latin social dance in university after some strong recommendations by some trusted Christian men. Dance has been shunned by the church, but why? Should not every married couple be encouraged to dance? Should not every single or dating person, especially men, not learn how to properly lead a partner? Dance is an expression of the heart, and working with others to navigate a dance floor builds community. It seems to me that the attitude towards social dance is a reflection of the attitude towards spirit-led faith traditions. The fear of falling into sin causes us to cut out something that can teach us so much about God’s love.

RACHEL SZABO: So his question, I think, is, is basically how do you express joy and fun as a Christian? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Okay, so first can we just acknowledge, like, like this guy’s cut like you, like you’re a dancer. 

RACHEL SZABO: Oh my gosh. I love dancing so much.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, you grew up, you grew up being trained in dance. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yes. 

JESSE EUBANKS: And here’s the funny – 

RACHEL SZABO: Not ballroom.

JESSE EUBANKS: No, not ballroom.

RACHEL SZABO: I’m a, I’m a little jealous about that because I dunno how to ballroom very well. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Here’s the thing is a lot of people don’t realize, like, because they meet you and, like, you’re a fairly reserved person until the beat drops. 

RACHEL SZABO: Oh my gosh. 

JESSE EUBANKS: And then, like, you lose your mind. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yesss. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah.

RACHEL SZABO: Dance party!

JESSE EUBANKS: And, uh, and I think people too will be surprised, like, by your playlist, like your Spotify playlist.

RACHEL SZABO: Oh, totally. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Because I think that people would think like, ‘Oh, Rachel probably listens to, like, slow melancholic music,’ but it like – no, no, no, no. It’s like –

RACHEL SZABO: Bring me the pop, bring me the rap. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Bring me the hip-hop. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yep.

RACHEL SZABO: Let’s go. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, in a lot of ways, Rachel, like, you sort of embody a little bit of what, like, he’s getting at, you know, because he’s talking about this tension between why is it that we have to choose between reverence and joy. And I feel like in a lot of ways, like, the way you approach our podcast, the way you do your work, like you believe in a certain level of dignity and reverence. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. And I, I think that’s a, a message that’s come through a lot of Christian culture is that it has to be one or the other. You either are reverent or you’re irreverent and you’re, you know, you’re, you’re loose and you’re having fun.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: And I think that is a message that’s kind of permeated a lot of Christian culture, but that’s unbiblical because if we look at Jesus – y’know, Jesus did both of those things. He had fun, and he was very reverent. You know, you look at, he was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton because he’s going out and he’s eating and drinking with all these people and he’s going to parties. He’s at the wedding, and he’s like, ‘Let me make wine because there’s no more wine.’ You know, like Jesus is having a good time. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yep. 

RACHEL SZABO: But Jesus is also, you know, getting up very early in the morning, going and spending time with the Father, praying, you know, very reverent. And so I think it’s not either/or. It’s both/and. And if we look at the life of Jesus, Jesus models this for us very well. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. I’m gonna tell you right now – the crowds would not have wanted to hang out with Jesus if he was just super serious all the time. And I’ll tell you who else wouldn’t – kids.

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: Like he was notorious for, like, kids wanted to be around him. Like, I dunno if you’ve ever been around somebody who’s, like, really serious all the time. Kids don’t wanna hang out with them.

RACHEL SZABO: No.

JESSE EUBANKS: Um, kids wanna hang out with the person that’s gonna make them laugh and who’s gonna be a child like them. So yeah, so lean in, have fun, enjoy things. God gave us a big world to experience.

RACHEL SZABO: What was that study? You talked about this at one point – you said that you read a study that said something about what –

JESSE EUBANKS: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It was Barna. They did this one called “Households of Faith,” and they looked at the different ingredients that helped children grow up to become Christians themselves.

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: And one of the ingredients that they looked at was togetherness, but a key aspect of that togetherness was ‘we play games.’ 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: And the more that the family really prioritized, like, having fun together, that that was a key aspect, and I think that a lot of that is because the kid goes, “Oh wow. Mom, dad, they’re serious about their faith, but they also just have fun. They enjoy their life. They seem to embody joy.” If a kid looks at an adult and goes, “They’re only serious all the time,” that kid goes, “Well, that’s the person I don’t wanna be like.” The kid wants to grow up to enjoy life and have fun. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, and I think about too – you know, Paul says in Corinthians, he says, “Whether you eat or you drink or whatever you do, do it for the glory of God.” And so, like, that’s really broad, like, whatever you’re doing, whether it’s you’re dancing or you’re playing a sport, you’re playing a game, you know, you’re playing a video game, like whatever – God is a part of that. God has given you life abundantly, and you are experiencing that abundant life by doing this thing that you’re doing. And so do it enjoying God and enjoying the life that he’s given you. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Cool. Thanks, Andy. That was a really good question.

RACHEL SZABO: Oh, this is interesting. Okay, so remember Jordy? Y’know, he asked us the question about the spiritual realm and the fantasy stuff and what is God telling him? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: So he left us that voice message, but he also sent us an email. 

JESSE EUBANKS: So you’re saying Jordy wrote a follow-up email? 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, so Jordy kind of flushed out his question a little bit more in this email.

JESSE EUBANKS: Oh, okay. 

RACHEL SZABO: Um, so he says, “For my question, think of it in the context of the mental health episode and the geek culture episode.”

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: “When I mentioned I’m led by the Holy Spirit to throw things out, I literally will be unable to sleep unless I do it.” So he’s saying the spirit is telling him – “Hey, you need to get rid of this thing,” like the fantasy things or whatever.

JESSE EUBANKS: Right.

RACHEL SZABO: And so then he, he gets rid of it. “I’m confused why something can be fine inside my house for years, but then all of a sudden I have to get rid of it. For context, I feel there’s a balance about being mindful of the media you consume and to not be watching or reading things that have a demonic or dark theme, but the reason you watch or read something and the lessons you learned from it is what’s important. For example, I think Harry Potter is fine because it has a Messiah message at the end and facing evil and being strong to do the right thing, but Harry Potter is one of the things God made me throw out.” Oh, that’s interesting. “The main crux of my question is I had to throw out my Avatar The Last Airbender stuff. There are spirit world elements, but I feel the show has an incredibly strong message, message of justice, bravery, compassion, joy, redemption, and hope. I don’t understand why God overlooks all of that because of a few episodes with spiritual elements and why strong Christian friends of mine aren’t allowed to watch it. I find that discouraging as this has not brought me any closer to God.” Okay, so that’s a totally different question – 

JESSE EUBANKS: Mm-hmm. 

RACHEL SZABO: Than what we answered. So, so he’s saying God is telling him to throw away these “geeky” things that he has because of some spiritual reference, demonic reference, whatever. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Um, the first thought that comes to mind for me is – is God actually telling you that?

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Are you certain that it is God himself that is telling you to do those things? And I’m not gonna definitively say that it’s not, but I’m saying that if I was looking at you face-to-face and we were having a conversation, I would have that question – why do you know that it is God beyond a particular maybe emotional impression or particular fixation? What evidence can you look at to say definitively it is God telling me to do this? 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. Along those lines, I would wonder if it’s, if it’s a matter of conscience for you, and whereas where does that message come from? Did you grow up in a Christian environment that was skeptical of those things? Is – are you hearing that from, like, Christian, you know, mainstream culture? Like where does that message of “God is not okay with these things” – where does that come from? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. The other thing that comes to mind is our friend Mike Cosper has a book called The Stories We Tell, and the basic idea in that is that, you know, Mike’s actually, uh, a huge, like, story geek. Um, he loves movies and TV shows and books and the basic premise of that book is that he explores the idea that the gospel story is really embedded in all the stories that we tell and so it gives you an ability and a framework and a way to look at other media you consume. Um, so Avatar, uh, you can look at Avatar and you can go – “What are the gospel themes that are present in this?” Most of the time, you know, those stories at the end are, are about self-sacrifice. They’re about, uh, good overcoming evil. They’re about the building of community. And so they’re like echoes of the gospel story, but of course they’re not the gospel story itself. But I would contend that we can enjoy those things fully, and just because something has a demonic theme or a dark theme doesn’t mean that we automatically have to write it off. However, you know, Rachel, you’re sensitive to really dark movies. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, I, I was gonna kind of add that caveat too is like, yeah, there are things that I am sensitive about and so there, there are some, you know, media, things, books, movies, TV shows, whatever that I just don’t consume. I, I don’t partake of that. You know, not that there’s something wrong with it, but just for me personally, like it’s an issue and I know it’s gonna create an issue. It’s gonna create, you know, a stumbling in my mind. It’s gonna, I’m gonna, like, go down this rabbit trail, and, like, there’s gonna be all kinds of issue if I, you know, watch this movie or, or whatever, you know. And so I, I stay away from those things. And so, you know, if there’s something –

JESSE EUBANKS: You’re like, “There’s enough drama in my head. I don’t need, you know, any added layer.” 

RACHEL SZABO: Totally. I don’t need any help. I don’t need any help in that department. Yeah, my imagination’s fine. That doesn’t need any help. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Right.

RACHEL SZABO: So yeah, if, if something like that is happening, you know, I, I’m self-aware enough to know I’m sensitive about that thing. “Hey, I’m just not gonna consume it because I know it’s gonna cause an issue.”

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: But I – that doesn’t sound like what’s happening with Jordy. It doesn’t sound like he has an issue with any of these things. It’s just – his issue is “Why is God telling me to get rid of all these things I like?”

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. And, and so I, I would encourage you to have, uh, have that conversation, you know, with a spiritual leader, with your community, maybe even with, um, you know, a mental health professional like, uh, who’s a Christian, like, but talk, talk about, um, find some corner where you can talk about, “Why do I believe that God is telling me to give these specific things away?”

RACHEL SZABO: Mm-hmm.

JESSE EUBANKS: Um, and, uh, yeah, explore some of that. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. Also he, he adds a P.S. – “Uh, on a theoretical Marvel What If episode, in an alternate reality I’m sure I did an internship with LTN in my early twenties. 

JESSE EUBANKS: (laughs) So great.

RACHEL SZABO: Oh, we have another caller. Hello? 

NATHANIEL: Hello? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, hey. Hey, this is Jesse. 

NATHANIEL: Awesome. Nice to meet you, Jesse. My name is Nathaniel. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Hey, Nathaniel. Where, where are you right now? 

NATHANIEL: I’m currently in, uh, Lancaster, Pennsylvania. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Lancaster. Not to be confused with Lan-caster. 

RACHEL SZABO: Lancaster. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Lancaster. (laughs)

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, and then I’m here with, uh, Rachel Szabo also. 

RACHEL SZABO: Hi, Nathaniel. 

NATHANIEL: Hi. 

JESSE EUBANKS: So Nathaniel, uh, do you have a question for us? 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. Um, so I saw on your Instagram page, um, just, um, if I had anything that was just weighing on me, I could ask you guys. So I was gonna ask, uh, what advice, uh, would you give to someone who is, um, having trouble, I guess, uh, living up to friends’ and family’s expectation?

JESSE EUBANKS: Mm-hmm. That’s a good, that’s a good question. Tell me, tell me like a specific scenario where you’ve experienced that recently. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. Um, recently I serve a lot within my church, and in serving, uh, I have a lot of different people, whether that be, um, younger students and adults within our congregation kind of look at me and kind of see me as kind of a, a selfless person and a very good person. Um, they tell their kids like, “Oh, you gotta be like Nathaniel. Y’know, he’s, he’s a good guy. You gotta, like, be like this guy. Just look at him as an example of all the things that he does.” And whenever I hear those kind of things, um, I don’t know, I kind of feel a little, a little bit of pressure because even when I feel that I can be a good person at times, I still see, you know, I’m not a totally great guy all the time. So if they catch me doing something wrong, like I’m sure that expectation will change 180, you know? 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah. You know, you don’t want to give, like, kids in the youth group cigarettes. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: That probably, that probably wouldn’t help things.

RACHEL SZABO: Don’t do that. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. (laughs)

JESSE EUBANKS: Um, so you’re feeling, you know, all this, I don’t know –

RACHEL SZABO: Pressure. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, pressure.

NATHANIEL: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: And expectations. And I’m gonna guess – like, I don’t know, is there a positive side? Like when you hear people saying really complimentary things about you, like is there a part that you’re like, “Oh, that’s really nice to hear, and I, I’m glad for that”?

NATHANIEL: Yeah. Uh, I think I’m very grateful for the times when people do say that a lot to me, but also feel like if I do something wrong, everyone’s kind of watching me. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah. Well that’s what I was kinda curious about – like what do you think, what do you think’s, like, the worst case scenario in this? So like, you know, you feel like they kind of hold you up in a nice sort of idyllic way, and then if they got to know – what, like the real you? – like what are you, what are you scared will happen?

NATHANIEL: I’m scared, I guess, that people will view me differently or won’t think highly of me anymore if I make, like, maybe one mistake. So I feel that there’s a lot of pressure in, um, just, um, how I live my life. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Do you feel like you would be letting those people down if you messed up, or would you be letting yourself down if you messed up?

NATHANIEL: Uh, I think I would be letting everyone down, especially myself too. I think because people have told me and put me in high regard, I view myself in that way too. So thinking if I ever made a mistake or did anything incorrect that was out of line – like, for example, like, I just turned 21 recently, right? And, um, the concept of, like, me going out to, like, bars and drinking and socializing, like, that kind of seemed like, like I’m not allowed to do any of that because, uh, if I do, it’s always seen in a negative light. 

RACHEL SZABO: Hmm. Is that something you would like to do? 

NATHANIEL: Um…

RACHEL SZABO: But you just feel like you can’t or you shouldn’t?

NATHANIEL: Yeah. In a way. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. I know that it is something that, like, uh, I know my friends have experienced. All of my friends who turned 21 at this age, uh, kind of go out and, uh, socialize a bit more in that light, and if I ever went out with them or did anything like that and someone were to see me, uh, it wouldn’t be viewed in a good light.

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah. You talked a little bit about how other people would view you. You’ve talked sort of about letting yourself down. How are you thinking about your faith in this, this issue? Where do those two things intersect? 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. Um, sometimes when I, I guess have the – like when people compliment me, when people, I guess, view me in a higher light and I view myself in that higher light, sometimes it does feel like I idolize myself in a way, that I put myself over God.

JESSE EUBANKS: Mmm. Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm. Do you ever feel that God is putting that pressure on you as well? Like, is the, the viewpoints from other people, does that also translate over to how you’re, you think that God is thinking about you or, or no? 

NATHANIEL: I think so too. I mean, serving in a community like this, I would love to believe that through my actions, um, God used me as, uh, the same at least of how these people are viewing me too. But at the same time, I, I don’t know. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm. Would God be disappointed if you messed up? Like do you view him like that? 

NATHANIEL: I think so. 

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm. 

NATHANIEL: Um, but a part of me is also a little worried because it seems – I guess, thinking about it now – like I would be more upset that other people were disappointed in me than I guess God.

RACHEL SZABO: Mmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Is there anybody in your life that, uh – like let’s just say tomorrow you’re like, “You know what? I’m gonna go have a drink. I’m not gonna have, like, I’m not going to have 10 drinks. I’m literally just gonna go have a drink.”

NATHANIEL: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Is there anybody in your world that, that you think “they would not look at me different”?

NATHANIEL: Um, yeah. I guess some friends, not in my church circle, but within my, like, uh, school friends that I’ve grown up with. 

JESSE EUBANKS: They’re Christians, or they’re not Christians?

NATHANIEL: Uh, non-Christian. 

RACHEL SZABO: Hmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: So like in your immediate world, from your perspective, you can’t think of any Christians that would condone you going and having a drink at a club somewhere?

NATHANIEL: Uh, no, not really, no. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah, I’m, I’m kind of just thinking about, you know, this bigger – you know, we, we keep talking about the drinking thing. The drinking thing is just like a –

RACHEL SZABO: It’s an example. 

JESSE EUBANKS: It’s an example. Yeah. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah, yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: I mean, I would imagine, you know, if you’re 21, part of what’s normal at the age that you are is, uh, is exploring. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, trying some things out. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, trying things out. 

NATHANIEL: Mm-hmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Part of the question of course is – is there room in my life or in my faith or in my friendships, in my relationships, in my family, is there room for me to be able to try things without massive consequences? 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah.

NATHANIEL: I think that’s definitely one of the big questions that I’ve thought about. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Hmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Which at the end of the day, like, you’re in a season of life where you’re asking the question at some level of like, “Who am I?” 

NATHANIEL: Mm-hmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: And part of what you’re coming up against is – “Am I just what other people think of me?” Because if that’s true, then I do have to maintain this image. I do have to maintain being very likable. I do have to maintain being a role model. I do have to maintain being, yeah, just right and good all the time. But if that’s not truly who you are, who you truly are is loved by God, made right because of who Jesus is – then that’s a different identity, and that identity actually presumes grace –

NATHANIEL: Mmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Like it presumes “God already knows anything that’s coming and any mistakes that I’m gonna make, and therefore I can be courageous and brave and make choices where I don’t know what the outcome is gonna be. I might lose the admiration of others, but I will not ever lose the affection of God.”

NATHANIEL: Mmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: How – I don’t know – how does that strike you? 

NATHANIEL: Um, it’s a bit scary for me ’cause I, I also view a lot – like I said before, I view the opinion of others like really highly. If anything, it kind of like makes up who I am, what people think of me. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

NATHANIEL: Letting people down is probably one of the scariest things, uh, just in life for me.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah, ’cause like, um, you know, having people’s admiration and feeling important to others and revered or looked up to – those things can feel like love. 

NATHANIEL: Mm-hmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: And so when those, when those things feel threatened, it’s like, “Oh, I can’t, I can’t do that -” 

NATHANIEL: Mm-hmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: “Because if I do that, if I do that, I’ll lose love. And if I lose love, I don’t know how I’m gonna function in life.” Um…

NATHANIEL: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Is that kind of what you’re getting at? Like –

NATHANIEL: Yeah.

JESSE EUBANKS: At its heart it feels like a threat. Like if you go out, you get into an argument with somebody, and, you know, you lose your mind in the argument, you say a bunch of stupid things –

NATHANIEL: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: And the word gets out – it feels as though like that – like you will lose the relationships in your life, which means you will lose love, which means you will lose feeling important, feeling cared for. 

RACHEL SZABO: Valued.

JESSE EUBANKS: Valued. Yeah. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s kind of what I’m getting at. Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Uh, yeah. Uh, Rachel can fix your problem. (laughter) Uh, can’t you, Rachel? Can’t you fix this, Rachel?

RACHEL SZABO: Nooo, I can’t fix this. I can fix it. It’s called get counseling. (laughter) That’s my answer to everything. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah. I do think, like you’ve already alluded to – I don’t know if, I don’t know if you’ve said this word. I don’t mean it in a judgmental way. I just mean it in terms of the way you’ve talked about it, but like being, being admired by others and being really important to other people is probably occupying an idol space, like, “because it feels as though if I lose admiration or I lose importance, I will cease to exist. Any value that I bring to the world is gone.” Anytime that something is, like, that big, that important, you know, it’s in a space. And I – and the reason I was reluctant to say idols is ’cause I don’t wanna say it from a perspective of judgment.

NATHANIEL: Mmm. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Think of it almost more like I’m saying it functionally. Like whenever something kind of crawls into a space where we’re like, “I have to have this thing,” like we are functionally saying, “In my body, in my lived experience, like I, if I don’t have this thing, my life’s really gonna go off the rails.” And, uh, yeah. I’m just wondering about, like, what would it look like for you to believe that God delights in you and God loves you and God sees you and God understands you and God is – he dotes over you.

RACHEL SZABO: And he has grace for you. 

JESSE EUBANKS: He has grace for you. Like you cannot out-sin his grace. So, like, on the one hand it’s like, “Well, go wild.” Like I’m not saying, like, go live a horrible life, but I’m, like, it sort of takes away the power of sin. So I’m just wondering, like, what would it look like for you to really, truly believe “God the Father loves me and delights in me and celebrates me and his opinion is the one that counts far more than everybody else.”

NATHANIEL: Mmm. That’s a good question.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: And I mean, that’s, that’s something that takes a lifetime to kind of unpack. You know, I think we’re, we’re all kind of on that journey of unpacking “What does it mean for me to truly believe that God delights in me, that God has grace for me, that God is for me all the time?” Like, that’s not something that we, you’re gonna wake up tomorrow and be like, “Oh, now it’s better.”

NATHANIEL: (laughs) Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah.

RACHEL SZABO: Like, yeah, those, those are questions that, that you can carry with you for a long time and journey through that for sure. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, the other thing too is I would say, like, you’re already practicing right now, like the very fact that you were this honest with us.

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Like my encouragement would be, like, find, you know, find a couple of folks in your life that you’re like, “All right, here’s the unedited me. Like here’s the version of me that’s not, not trying to people-please, I’m not on a stage, I’m not trying to impress anybody, like I’m gonna bring my confused self that’s trying out some new things. I’m gonna show up for these relationships in that way.” Like it might be true that the community you’re in may not respond well, you know, if you do certain things, but can you find a handful of folks that allow you the freedom to start, you know, test driving new things? 

NATHANIEL: Mmm. Yeah, I think I might be able to think of a few.

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. I don’t know. Does – is that helpful, Nathaniel? 

NATHANIEL: Yeah, I think so. Well, I do feel a bit more encouraged. I appreciate you guys talking with me, just taking some time outta your day just to give me some advice. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, well it’s our pleasure. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, absolutely. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Thanks for calling and talking with us. 

NATHANIEL: Yeah. For sure. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. Great question. Thanks for being vulnerable. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah.

NATHANIEL: I’ll see you guys. Thank you guys. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, take care. Yeah, take care. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. Bye, Nathaniel. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Bye.

RACHEL SZABO: All right, here’s another question coming via voice message. 

GIANNA: Hi. I’m Gianna from Minnesota, and I am wondering if you have any suggestions on how to narrow in on who you wanna help, who I wanna help. Hurting people are what gets me, like, gives me a purpose, like I wanna help hurting people. And there’s hurting people as in refugees, immigrants, um, minority communities, unplanned pregnancy moms and babies, right? Like, um, there’s the poor, there’s those being abused. Like, there’s just so, so, so much. What are some practical steps in, like, putting what your passion is and your skills and gifts together to find your sweet spot? 

JESSE EUBANKS: That’s a really good question, and I think that’s like the question that so many of us deal with at different times in life.

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, ’cause I think – here’s the thing for me anyway is that, with social media, there’s so much information.

JESSE EUBANKS: Right.

RACHEL SZABO: That you’re getting all the time. It’s like, “Care about this cause, no care about this cause, no care about this thing.” 

JESSE EUBANKS: Mm-hmm. Yep.

RACHEL SZABO: And it’s like I can’t care about all the things. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yep. 

RACHEL SZABO: Which one should I care about?

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah. Yeah. You know, there’s a couple of thoughts that come to mind. One of them is that I’m always interested when I sit down with somebody and talk with them – I’m always curious about the intersection between their greatest pain point in their own life and the needs of the world. Another way of maybe saying that, is, um, the intersection between your life story and the needs of the world. And so is there something that is in the story of your life that’s a particularly hard thing, a challenging thing, and through the years God has brought some healing or has brought some growth? Maybe you’re still on that journey, but it’s an area that really matters to you. Is that an opportunity to perhaps help other people? So I would always say just be curious about your own life story and in particular the areas of, of pain for you. 

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah, I think that’s, uh, that’s really good advice. I mean, that’s kind of like why I got involved in working with the homeless population is there was a lot of, um, hurt and pain regarding like a, a story with my brother and I. It really made me care about, like, outcast people and then it, you know, brought me into working with the homeless population for several years, so I think that’s a really good point. I think I would add to that also – just like on a practical level, like what is available in your community? What are the things that you can step into? Is there a crisis pregnancy, you know, center in your community where you can volunteer? Is there a homeless shelter or a mission where you can volunteer? Just on a practical level, what is available where you are? And just step into that ’cause God has put you where you are for a reason. So look around and see, “Well, what are the actual opportunities that are around me that I can step into?”

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, I think that’s spot-on. I think that sometimes we have these ambitions because of social media or because of books we read or movies we watch. We just feel this compulsion to help with these things that are really far away and maybe they’re not ours, so I think knowing the difference between what can be in your circle of concern and your circle of responsibility.

RACHEL SZABO: Yeah. 

JESSE EUBANKS: We aren’t responsible for all the pains of the world, like even Jesus kept his geographic responsibility relatively small. Um, and I think that we need to be responsive to those needs that are in front of us, but we don’t always need to feel the compulsion to fix everything and, and be pulled out, uh, you know, into every situation. One other thing I, I would direct you to is we released a free giveaway last year called the Quarter Life Road Map. Part of what we explore in the Quarter Life Road Map is this question of needing a compass. Like, what is it that we are being drawn towards? What is it that we’re moving toward? How do we make decisions that ensure that we are moving towards, uh, the world’s needs? And there’s a section in there that has just a bunch of different questions – so questions like, “What people or causes do you naturally find yourself drawn to? Uh, who are you most passionate about helping? What causes the people you care about the most pain or frustration? And how could your interests help the people you care about serving?” And I think that answering those questions helps us begin to narrow down where to focus. My final piece of advice would just be this – choose one of those things, just one, and just stick with it. For like six months or a year, that’s your thing. You’re just gonna invest in the one thing. Instead of going wide and shallow, you’re gonna go narrow and you’re gonna go deep. And I think that by doing that, even if you don’t end up ultimately going, “That was my calling in life,” there’s no doubt that whatever you commit yourself to, it’s gonna shape you. God’s gonna work through that to shape you, but also you’re gonna have a real impact on the lives of, of hurting people. So, Gianna, great question. I think that’s a question that a lot of us, uh, wrestle with at different times, and so hopefully some of that helps. All right, that concludes today’s listener questions. 

RACHEL SZABO: The hotline is now closed. The hotline is now a cold line. 

JESSE EUBANKS: (laughs) Oh my gosh. 

RACHEL SZABO: But seriously, like, that was fun. I enjoyed that. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Yeah, it was fun. And everybody that asked us a question – seriously, we really hope that you’ve found this episode and these answers, these responses to be helpful as you follow Jesus in today’s culture and context. Stay faithful. Stay with it.

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JESSE EUBANKS: If you benefited at all from this podcast, please help us out by leaving a review wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. Your review will help other people discover our show.

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JESSE EUBANKS: Special thanks to our listeners who called in. Be on the lookout because we will do this again sometime in the future. 

RACHEL SZABO: Our senior producer and host is Jesse Eubanks. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Our co-host today is Rachel Szabo, who is also our media director and producer – and who I caught online the other day ranting in a men’s group on Facebook.

ANDY: Should not every married couple be encouraged to dance? 

RACHEL SZABO: Anna Tran is our audio engineer. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Music for today’s episode comes from Lee Rosevere and Blue Dot Sessions. Theme music and commercial music by Murphy DX. 

RACHEL SZABO: Apply for your social action internship supported by Christian community by visiting lovethyneighborhood.org. You can serve for a summer or for a year. You’ll grow in your faith as well as your life skills. Learn more at lovethyneighborhood.org. 

JESSE EUBANKS: Which of these was a neighbor to the man in need? The one who showed mercy. Jesus tells us, “Go, and do likewise.”